Talk:Tanya (Judaism)

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Peer review

Tanya (Judaism) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Saw this on Wikipedia:Peer review. I don't know the context or have a great knowledge of the topic either, but it seems it could be expanded a bit based on Hasidic writings and knowledge. It needs more historical context, however - some dates would be nice. It seems wikified enough to me. - Scooter 00:22, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The general information seems fine, but an introductory sentence establishing a clear context might be good. Just a basic statement such as "Tanya is a book about Jewish spiritualism", or something like that (I can't really write a good opening, since I don't know enough about it). Other than that, it looks fine to me. -- Vardion 08:25, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Tanya Rabbati

Please note that I moved Tanya Rabbati to it's own article, so as to create "Tanya" as a "stand-alone" - since so many articles point there (as opposed to "Tanya Rabbati"). Fintor 17:12, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What does Tanya mean

What does "Tanya" mean? It doesn't seem to be related to the Hebrew name given for this work. Either way, should be noted. Kaisershatner 19:06, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz's Opening the Tanya, תניא literally means "it has been taught" (p. 4) rather than "it has been said" (as is in the article). I don't know Aramaic, so I can't argue this point, but I'm wondering if you guys do read it. Thanks. Yonah

Yonah is right. The word is etymologically related to the Hebrew שנה, to teach, which in turn is related to שנים, the number two, indicating repetition. (In transforming words to Aramaic from Hebrew, the ש is often replaced with a ת.) There are two words meaning "It was taught" in Aramaic, the other being תנן, t'nan, which introduces a teaching from the Mishna. תניא, tanya, introduces a teaching of the Baraita. Musashiaharon (talk) 12:37, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Zalman vs Shneur Zalman

"Zalman" is not a last name but the second part of the first name. The full first name is Shneur Zalman and should not be split. Calling him Zalman is like calling the current President "Mr. W.". The rabbi did not have a last name apparently (it was probably before the time when Jews acquired last names in Russia) and is usually refered to as Shneur Zalman from Liady, Baal Tanya ("the man of Tanya") or Alter Rebbe ("the Old Rebbe" -- this name is used primarily within the Chabad circles). I added some details to each section (sorry, I wasn't signed in). Alex 21:53, 17 Sep. 2006

his last name was barochovitch (son of baruch, if I remember correctly.) similar to the mittler rebbe's shneurii. 74.138.78.83 (talk) 15:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Boruchovich is a patronymic, not a surname. The Alter Rebbe had no surname. The Mitteler Rebbe adopted the surname Schneuri. -- Zsero (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

merge from|Hasidic philosophy

Much of the Hasidic philosophy article belongs here or in the Chabad-Lubavitch article because it's mostly about Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic philosophy. IZAK 07:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly, but if so, merge with the Chabad Article, as opposed to the Tanya article... Fintor 06:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think Tanya should remain its own article, since its central to many chasidic dynasty's, not just Chabad. --Shlomke 23:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

do not merge chassidic philiosophy is built around several books not just the tanya--Java7837 23:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Although it's true that Tanya contains general ideas pertinent to all specific branches of Chasidic philosophy, for that very reason it deserves a page of its own, in much the same way as the Tanakh has a page separate from the general Judaism page. Yehoishophot Oliver 17:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My edit

I do not see any need for the words Jewish mysticism in the kabalah link. Stop censoring me. 210.84.40.154 23:49, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is needed for the reader to know what it is referring to. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 23:51, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes. It must be called Judaism (Religion of the Jews (Jews are according to traditional views someone who has either converted to Judaism under a Bet Din (Jewish court of law) or were born to a Jewish mother)). Stop trying to get me to break the 3RR so you can ban me with those power you should of never got. 210.84.40.154 23:57, 26 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not censorship, nor is it an attempt to make you violate 3RR. It's about not putting a stumbling block in front of the reader. Having a parenthetical phrase that translates a foreign-language word is much more reader-friendly than making the reader click through to another article to find the word's definition. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 02:17, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This has nothing to with a stumbling block. Please don't fool yourself. 203.217.41.188 10:59, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Statements about Gentiles

There exists a controversy about the Tanya on how it relates to Gentiles. Several prominent critics of Judaism have cited the book as proof that there exists an inherent racism within Jewish theology. Many of them claim that the Tanya calls Gentiles "totally satanic creatures", a highly disparaging way to refer to non-Jews. [1] ADM (talk) 09:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

see an approach here:

http://emet.blog-city.com/chabad_theology_conversations_with_rtzvi_freeman_on_tanya_.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.217.142 (talk) 14:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Menachem_Mendel_of_Vitebsk wrote parts of the Tanya

If the Tanya is partially based on the writings of Menachem Mendel of Vitebsk, then why isn't he mentioned at all in this article? Someone please fix.Jimhoward72 (talk) 15:18, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

controversial book? debate over racism?

I removed this statement sourced to an old JC op-ed type a thing and it was restored. I do not think that source is adequate for the weight given as one of the primary aspects of this topic nor does it really support the statement. The author of that sentence was indeffed. I would request a better source and that the statement be rewritten to conform with the summary of those better sources. Andre🚐 02:30, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote it much shorter and moved it to the body. The criticism section needs expansion from better sources, after which it will be apparent whether a sentence in the lead is appropriate. The issue is serious, though the centrality of this work in Chabad means that it is difficult to find sources in English. First I'll quote some of what the fuss is about from the Tanya itself, using the Chabad translation:

"The souls of the nations of the world, however, emanate from the other, unclean kelipot which contain no good whatever, as is written in Etz Chayim, Portal 49, ch. 3, that all the good that the nations do, is done from selfish motives. So the Gemara comments on the verse, "The kindness of the nations is sin,"— that all the charity and kindness done by the nations of the world is only for their own self-glorification, and so on."

And later:

"This stands in direct contrast to the so-called kelipah and sitra achra, wherefrom are derived the souls of the gentiles who work for themselves alone, demanding, 'Give, give!' and 'Feed me!' in order to become independent beings and entities, as mentioned above, in direct contrast to the category of chochmah. Therefore they are called 'dead,'... ."

Two academic sources in English that discuss this are Roman A. Foxbrunner, The Hasidism of R. Shneur Zalman of Lyady, pages 107 and following; and Ismar Schorsch, The Ethos of Modern Jewish Scholarship, The Leo Baeck Institute Year Book, Volume 35, Issue 1, 1 January 1990, Pages 55–71. Both document that the attitude to gentiles seen in the Tanya is representative of Shneur Zalman's writings. This from Foxbrunner (who gives copious primary citations):

"Gentile souls are [according to SZ] of a completely different and inferior order. They are totally evil, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Consequently, references to gentiles in RSZ's teachings are invariably invidious. In general terms, they were created only to test, to punish, to elevate, and ultimately to serve Israel (in the Messianic Era). More specifically, even their wisdom is actually foolishness, because it leads to ego inflation and arrogance rather than to the self-nullification of Hokhmah."

And more like that. I have to study it for references directly to the Tanya, but I believe the topic is absolutely wiki-worthy. Zero^talk 04:03, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That is sufficient to address my objection for now. Andre🚐 04:33, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]